Albinovanus Fango ignored the theatrics of the Senator and rose after he was finished with his performance.
"As there doesn't seem to be much debate on this issue I will move to a vote.
Assembled Senators are to vote on the below treaty."
Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the Republic of Rome and the Seleucid Empire.
The following terms are agreed upon for peace in Greece and Asia Minor:
I. The Seleucid Empire recognises the Republic of Rome's sphere over the Greek Mainland.
II. The Seleucid Empire will withdraw from Thrace in its entirety.
III. The Seleucid Empire will help establish a loyal Greek Kingdom in Thrace to ensure stability in the region.
IV. Rome recognises the Seleucid Empire's control over the majority of Mainland Asia Minor.
V. Both the Roman Republic and the Seleucid Empire recognise the territorial integrity of the following nations in Asia Minor, and agree that they will be excluded from the recognition of Seleucid control of Asia Minor:
Pergamon
Rhodes
Smyrna
Lampsacus
VI. If any of the Polis detailed in Article V declare war on the Seleucid Empire of their own volition, then the Seleucid Empire has the right to annex them as a justified reparation. Rome will also recognise the territory as being under Seleucid control in such an event.
VII. If the Kingdom of Thrace attacks either Rome or her sphere, Rome reserves the right to annex them or establish a loyal Kingdom.
VIII. The Seleucid Empire agrees to hand over Hannibal of Carthage to Rome as a prisoner.
Senator M. Silvius Pastor, recognizing that no other member wished to contribute to the discussion at-hand, rose to speak.
Presiding Senator,
I saw fit to allow for my colleagues to speak, or remain silent before making my peace - seeing as though they have chosen the latter, so shall speak my mind on this matter. I apologize for the procedural interruption and thank the Senator for his allowance of the floor.
To mince words would be a disservice to our Mother Republic and our Graecian allies, so I shall make my opinion clear - this “Treaty of Peace and Friendship” is nothing more than an insult to Rome. As our esteemed colleague, the proxy for Senator Post. Caesonius Tacitus, has already spoken on the ambiguity of Provisions VI and VII - terms that would allow a pragmatic tyrant to fabricate a pretense to invade and annex the nations set forth in Provision V, including our allies Pergamom and Rhodes - I shall instead speak to the capitulatory nature of the remaining provisions and my specific grievances with each of them.
To Provision I, the Seleucids should already recognize Roman friendship with the nations of mainland Greece. Indeed, the notion that we - honorable Romans - are able to have sustained and friendly diplomatic relations with Graecians need not be codified, though I understand that the Seleucids may have difficulty comprehending such an idea given their own diplomatic shortcomings. To Provision II, the Seleucids should have already withdrawn from their invasion of the Hellespont. Continued occupation of the Hellespont by Seleucid forces should be met with condemnation from this Esteemed Body and our allies in Greece and Asia Minor. To Provision III, the stability in the region would be best served by an immediate Seleucid withdrawal from the Hellespont; not with the establishment of a Seleucid client-state. Indeed, the area of Thrace in general is neither ours to grant to Antiochus nor is it Antiochus’ to receive. To Provision IV, Rome need not codify the geographic bounds of Seleucid influence - those nations in Asia Minor and along the Seleucid borders ought to have the right to self-determination, not shackled to Seleucid subservience against their will. To Provision V, these nations - including loyal Roman allies of Pergamom and Rhodes - should also possess the right to self-determination. To codify these nations in particular as the exclusions from Seleucid domination sets a dangerous precedent for all others, particularly those within striking distance of any Seleucid expansionist ambitions. Finally, to Provision VIII, Hannibal ought to have been unconditionally gifted by Antiochus to Rome in chains the second he arrived in Asia Minor. I implore Antiochus to hand over Hannibal to Rome immediately so that the latter may face an unceremonious death and his memory be removed from history.
If amenable to my esteemed brethren, I would implore those Seleucid diplomats responsible for the proposition of these “terms” to speak to the Senate. I, for one, would appreciate the opportunity to scrutinize these men and their objectives until either a reasonable proposal is set forth or they are recalled to Asia Minor.. Moreover, with Roman honor and integrity in mind, I suggest that we dispatch copies of the terms of this “Treaty of Peace and Friendship” to all nations in the known world - if we are to submit ourselves to this bargain with the Seleucids, the world ought to know what sort of nation Rome has become.
Gentlemen, Rome has already been asked to defeat one Graecian tyrant - we are ready and capable of defeating a second.
All senators must be allowed to, or given the opportunity to speak. The debate was not open for nearly long enough and the Consul's proxy cut proceedings short wrongly. Out of principle, and as well as agreeing with Silvius Pastor's impassioned speech, I vote NAY on the matter.
Now we must hear of Quinctilius Varus's accusation forthwith.
Starfish, but you could probably already tell from the stupid shit I've written above this signature
I would not agree to such a treaty with an aggressive expansionist who titled themselves "the Great". I only see Antiochus using this to further grow his strength and pose a future threat to Rome, he naturally eyes Greece as his homeland it is only a matter of time before he tries to reclaim it.
For that and the many reasons listed by honorable Silvius Pastor;
I vote Nay
crustyrustyaphid Formerly Kaiser und König Franz Ferdinand I
Formerly Major General Don Carlos Buell
Formerly King Carol I
The right of Consuls to conduct diplomacy is well established in the laws of Rome, indeed it has been seen in recent years that the Consul or a proxy commit Rome to great acts through diplomacy. I can see no reason why we should challenge this treaty when its merits are sound. Rome is coming off of a number of conflicts, some of which were started through an abject failure of diplomacy.
For this reason, and because I put the value of the Republic above personal ambitions, I vote AYE.
I vote AYE on this to guarantee the peace. I want to make clear for those that fear the Seleucid King will attack us that he has willingly ceded his allies to us in Greece. Thrace itself is a barbarous land of petty chiefdoms, so it would be more cost to them to try tame the wildlands there. Further, the Seleucids will only be able to claim our allies lands if, and only if, our allies themselves declare a formal war against the Seleucids, something that is highly unlikely to happen. A simple attack will not suffice for an activation of Article VI. Further, there isn't any evidence that the Seleucids have broken or violated their own treaties in favour of conquest, and have established alliances and marriages with several Kingdoms in Asia Minor. It seems more than likely that their intent on full control of Asia Minor will involve diplomatic unions between these kingdoms and the Seleucid Empire.
