Curia Session V - 194 BC

[Gaius Claudius Nero Liguricus]

Senator Nero rises to speak

As a point of clarification, I am in support of having 1-2 Socii legions protect each of our Hispanian provinces, and am in agreement that our finances have been drained over the last few years. I am also in favour of pivoting to having a Consul or Proconsul muster a force and sail to Hispania should a campaign be necessary instead of entirely relying on the governors. This alone would resolve our economic issues with Hispania on their own.

However, I do not see how this bill will resolve that at all instead of simply just raising a Socii for each Hispanian province and leaving it be to the Promagistrates. The same level of funding will be spent either way, but with this bill it will cause economic harm to the provinces that depend so heavily on investments and economic development. The provinces of Hispania have only existed for barely 3 years, we cannot expect them to be highly profitable and stable , nor commit to such a radical overhaul of our finances, in such a short period of time.

The proxy of Proconsul Bellicus raises a good point too about what would happen if a barbaric raid or invasion occurs, and the provinces do not have an adequate reserve. It would simply resort to what we have done already of sending troops from Italy to combat. We have had 3 wars within Hispania in as many years recently.

The financial reforms I don't believe will resolve anything, but I am in favour of a military pivot to our Consuls/non-governor Proconsuls in resolving larger Hispanian wars.

[Marcus Decius Bellicus]

The Proxy for Decius Bellicus grumbles

"If only we had a Proconsul in Hispania right now..."

[Gaius Cassius Vecellinus]

The Consul rises to address the interventions.

The Proxy Rises

"Consul, how is the money from these emergency funds to get to Rome, during an attack, should more than one Socii legion be needed? What of in cases where one Socii legion would not be enough, does the Province have to wait until such a time as a message can be sent to Rome to the Senate, then back to the province, then the money be shipped to the Temple of Saturn, then it is used by the Senate to raise additional forces?

"I must say I agree with my colleagues that question the *why* of this attempted piece of legislation, that does not appear to have much support outside of yourself and your small gathering of supporters. Indeed, this very legislation is shown to be wholly inaccurate in its first "WHERAS statement" in that the loss of Roman lives is not due to a lack of a defense policy, it was due to the lack of actions of this Senate and one Sardinian promagistrate. The second is inaccurate because the Senate does not wish to create this fund, you do Consul. And I would imagine that the third would not be widely accepted, although it is a nice token gesture to the Propraetor and Proconsul in Hispania after their pleas were wholly ignored.

"Why, by your own calculations, you said it could take six years or more to reach a point where this emergency fund is put into place. So what does that do for the immediate needs of the provinces? How would this have prevented the attacks in Sardinia? How would that do anything in two, three, four or five years' time if, should the Gods be angered, another attack occurs?

"Conscript Fathers, we hear today from the Consul that the provinces, the financial backbone of the greater Republic, are a net drain on this Republic, yet we are here debating legislation that would take away even more of their ability to create and send revenues to Rome. I will not pretend to have the arithmetical powers of some such as the Senator representing Lucretius Tricipitinus, however I do not see how the best way to solve a loss of money is to take more from the thing costing you said moneys.

Senator in representation of Proconsul Decius Bellicus,

Should the situation materialize where our provinces are attacked and they are incapable of replying to an attack, we will reply as we have always have done. The motion does not forbid, nor does it intend to, the Senate taking action to protect the Republic's holdings when the latter cannot defend themselves.

What the motion does allow is for the provinces to eventually have such a capability, where as presently they do not. Indeed, Sardinia was forced to resort to an emergency levy of funds, which created its own share of problems, in order to quickly respond to a tribal raid.

The proxy for Consul Furius Pavo rises calmly to speak.

“Consul, would it be more prudent to have the ‘defense savings’ accounted upon receiving taxes from the provinces? Individual governors may be perhaps inconsistent and we would never fully know the exact savings at any given time.

If the Senate creates and oversees these defense budgets with revenue from the provinces, we can see in total the amount that sits in them and the full 20% extracted for this purpose. Provinces merely need to send us their taxes in full as they have always done.”

Senator in representation of my esteemed Co-Consul,

While it may be appear so on the surface, I would politely disagree. Geographic, as much as political distance, make this an awkward arrangement for in case of an attack the Governor would be left helpless until the Senate could be convened to first debate and then vote upon the application of said funds.

Senator Nero rises to speak

As a point of clarification, I am in support of having 1-2 Socii legions protect each of our Hispanian provinces, and am in agreement that our finances have been drained over the last few years. I am also in favour of pivoting to having a Consul or Proconsul muster a force and sail to Hispania should a campaign be necessary instead of entirely relying on the governors. This alone would resolve our economic issues with Hispania on their own.

However, I do not see how this bill will resolve that at all instead of simply just raising a Socii for each Hispanian province and leaving it be to the Promagistrates. The same level of funding will be spent either way, but with this bill it will cause economic harm to the provinces that depend so heavily on investments and economic development. The provinces of Hispania have only existed for barely 3 years, we cannot expect them to be highly profitable and stable , nor commit to such a radical overhaul of our finances, in such a short period of time.

The proxy of Proconsul Bellicus raises a good point too about what would happen if a barbaric raid or invasion occurs, and the provinces do not have an adequate reserve. It would simply resort to what we have done already of sending troops from Italy to combat. We have had 3 wars within Hispania in as many years recently.

The financial reforms I don't believe will resolve anything, but I am in favour of a military pivot to our Consuls/non-governor Proconsuls in resolving larger Hispanian wars.

Senator G. Claudius Nero,

Your argument has persuaded me in regards the need to maintain a certain level of investment in our new provinces so as to make them more financially feasible in the medium-to-long term; in addition, since it is the Senate that is demanding that the provinces maintain a minimum-level of defense, it is a valid argument that it be the Senate to fund these legions which do not encumber the other regions with additional expenditure.

This is a position that I hope we can change in the future to the benefit of Rome but as a short-term policy I can see the validity of it.

I present to the Senate the rewritten motion with the contributions put forth by several Senators, with the requirement for the Hispanian provinces to fund a portion of their standing legion removed.

Moreover, given that we are beginning to enter a circular argument, I believe that it is time to put it to a vote and see the will of the Senate, either for its approval or dismissal.

For the following motion:

LEX DE PROVINCIIS CUSTODIENDIS (Law for the Guarding of Provinces)
Sponsor: Gaius Cassius Vecellinus

WHEREAS the Senate recognizes that the lack of a defined defence policy for the provinces has resulted in needless loss of Roman life;
WHEREAS the Senate seeks to create an emergency mechanism for the defence of its citizens and foederati;
WHEREAS the Senate acknowledges the special status of its provinces in Hispania;

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Roman Republic in the Curia Hostilia assembled,
I. The provinces of Rome, both those currently in existence and any that may be created, will be henceforth be required to either maintain or work towards a minimum permanent emergency treasury of 250,000 Denarii.
II. Until the amount listed in Article I is reached, provinces will reserve no less than one-fifth of their revenues for this purpose.
III. The emergency treasury will only be used for the sole purposes of defeating raids, incursions or other existential threats to the safety of the Republic in the province and/or its citizens.
IV. The penalty for unauthorized use, as listed in Article III, of the emergency treasury will be, at a minimum, that the withdrawn amount will be held as debt to be repaid within twelve months by the Propraetor or Proconsul who levied it. The Senate, following a Consular proposal, will evaluate if the use was indeed legitimate or not.
V. Provinces will be authorized, under the same conditions required to use the emergency treasury, to levy a single socii legion from within their territories.
VI. Given their particular status as frontier provinces subject to more frequent attacks and incursions, the Senate will fund the levying of an allied legion in Hispania Citerior and Hispania Ulterior on an yearly basis.
VII. Governors are responsible for reporting to the Senate, in the last month of their term, the status of the emergency fund at the start and at the end of their term as well as any information that puts into question the integrity of its accounting.
VIII. The present law will take effect on the consular year of 193BC onwards.

Written into the annals in the consular year 194BC of Gaius Cassius Vecellinus and Titus Furius Pavo

Begin discessio (division).

Quí hoc cénsétis, illuc tránsite; quí alia omnia, in hanc partem. (Whoever thinks this, go over there; whoever thinks anything else, to this part.)

May the will of the Senate be known to all.

[Gaius Cassius Vecellinus]

Aye.

[Hostus Lucretius Tricipitinus]

Nay

[Gaius Claudius Nero Liguricus]

Senator Nero, after some time deliberating in hushed tones to nearby Senators while the debate and vote continues, hands a rolled up scroll to one of Consul Vecellinus' Lictors before rising to speak.

I must vote Nay on this proposal as it stands currently. I have, however, drafted up a counter-bill that I feel will rectify the issues brought up here in an alternative way, should this vote fail to pass.

[Gaius Cassius Vecellinus]

The Consul asks the Lictor to bring him the scroll and after quickly reading it nods affirmatively at Gaius Claudius Nero acknowledging him.

[Marcus Decius Bellicus]

Nay by proxy

[TerranSteel]

Nay, by proxy.

[Gaius Quinctilius Varus]

Nay by proxy